LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Today, the Senate is expected to vote on a measure that could rein in the Trump administration's military actions in Venezuela. Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia is one of the resolution's co-sponsors. He's a Democrat and the ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere. Senator, good morning.
TIM KAINE: Good morning, Leila. Good to be with you.
FADEL: Thank you for being here. How would this measure - I mean, what would this measure do if it were to pass?
KAINE: Leila, it's a very simple measure that's part of the War Powers Resolution of 1973. It directs the president to cease the use of U.S. military and hostilities against Venezuela, and it has a specific exception where the U.S. always has the ability to defend itself from attack or imminent attack. So it would direct the president to cease military operations. It would have to be passed by the House and go to the president's desk. The president would likely veto it. But I've been down this path before, and what I found is when Congress passes a resolution like this, it's an effective message to the president that the American public is tired of war, and it's time to back off. So I want to get Congress engaged rather than have Congress hide from this, as they've done for the last four months.
FADEL: Now, the president's critics have accused him on many occasions of ignoring the will of Congress. So if this resolution passes, as you said, it would have some type of effect, but would it? Would the president just ignore it?
KAINE: My experience in President Trump's first term is I did a similar resolution after the president struck and killed the Iranian military leader Soleimani in Iraq, and we did a resolution no war in or against Iran, without congressional approval. It passed both houses. The president vetoed it. And we didn't have the votes to overturn the veto, but we noticed that the president then stepped back for the remainder of his term in terms of the aggressive military action because he knew what it meant. When Congress votes we don't want war, it's because their constituents don't want war. And I can tell you this, Virginia, a very pro-military state, Virginians don't want more wars. They want the president to focus on the cost of housing, food, energy, health care, child care. They don't want more wars. And I'm hoping to get Congress to send that message loud and clear to the president.
FADEL: Now, the administration has argued that this wasn't an act of war. It was a law enforcement operation, that the military was there to protect the FBI and DEA. Would the strikes and then capture of Nicolás Maduro be allowed under this resolution? I mean, would it change the actions that we saw?
KAINE: They did try to make that argument in the classified hearing we had yesterday. And I can't get into the classification, but you're right, that's the argument they're making. And that argument might have a little bit of sway if all this was was going in in the middle of the night, executing an arrest warrant, bringing Maduro back to the Southern District of New York. But, Leila, that's not what this is. We started with boat strikes against Venezuelan boats on September 2. We amassed naval assets around the country. We're seizing ships, as your last report showed. We did an invasion with a hundred and fifty aircraft that bombed military sites in Venezuela. Eighty Venezuelans were killed, bringing the total deaths of, quote, "enemies" to about 200. American troops were injured, and now we're going to occupy and run Venezuela and seize its oil assets, the president said, likely for years. This is more than just the simple execution of an arrest warrant, and Congress shouldn't be silent about it.
FADEL: And really quickly. I mean, you've put forward bills before that would limit the administration's use of force in Venezuela, and they failed because they didn't have the Republican support they needed. Would this time...
KAINE: Yes.
FADEL: ...Be any different?
KAINE: I'm likely - I've been able to get two Republican votes on earlier ones, but like my challenge to presidential tariffs, what I've noticed is I start with a vote or two, and then I get three or four, and now I'm getting four or five. I think the Republicans are getting tired of the notion of endless wars - Greenland, Colombia, Cuba, Mexico. What's next? I'm hoping some will step up.
FADEL: Tim Kaine, Democratic senator of Virginia. Thank you for your time.
KAINE: Absolutely. Take care.
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